A rough way to go out

So I go away for a day (to move home from college) and some guy ends up getting his head chopped off. I hadn't even heard about it until my old man came in from work yesterday talking some shit about "Don't take any jobs over in Iraq." I figured it would only be a matter of time before this shit got completely politicized. Then I had a few beers and fell asleep.

Anyhoo, D-COY, who blogs while listening to the Sean Hannity program, had this to say

Okay, by now, some of you have seen either the pictures or the video of the American civilian, Nick Berg, getting beheaded by members of Al Queda. To think that these whiney liberals are getting in a fuss about some retarded fraternity pictures, where most of the people being "humiliated" were known criminals. But when a american civilian is brutally executed by terrorist, almost no democrats have been hooting and hollering as much as they were a few days ago.

As a service to my future roommate, I invite anybody with any common sense to come in here and try to set him straight.

Comments

[METALFACE]

Sadly, I've seen the video and I'm now completly sick. It's out there. I thought most of the actually killing was off camera, but boy I was wrong. It's so graphic it's almost hard to believe it could be real. Damn.

[Bol]

I downloaded it this morning and my old man, Jo saw it while he was transfering files from the computer to his little flash drive. I told him what it was and then opened it. He sat there for a couple minutes (while the Iraqi guys were just talking), but then he was like "No, I can't do this" and ran out the room. I agree it's pretty gross, but something about it, for me, doesn't really seem real. I thought I would be a lot more upset to see someone beheaded, but I wasn't really.

[Bol]

For anyone who hasn't seen it, Wizbang has a few links to it.

http://wizbangblog.com/archives/002452.php

[Fitz]

I don't agree with D-Coys post myself, but I also have a feeling it was one of those "heat of the moment" type things. and I don't mean the song by Asia

There should be no political sides or thoughts on it other than that the killing was fucked up. This video shouldn't be used as an excuse for what we did in that Iraqi prison (which I believe is being overdone in terms of coverage, but nonetheless was wrong. There are some people that need to lose their jobs and go to jail over it. That being said, it isn't a major issue in the bigger picture)

[Bol]

Maybe it's not a big issue to you (I don't really give a shit about those Iraqis either), but when Al Quaeda and the like are using these images as recruitment materials, then obviously it is a major issue in the big picture. Remember, the photos have only been around now for a week or so and they've already cost us a head.

Also, Stone from Article Online brings up some good points:

http://articleonline.net/blog/archives/000277.shtml

[noixe]

friendly reminder. Al Qaeda does not equal Iraq. if we'd never gone into Iraq in the first place, this wouldn't have happened.

[Bol]

Noixe brings up a good point. This really is all George Bush's fault.

[Fitz]

yeah, but there's no way that those prison pictures are going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back to arabs. i mean, if you decided that you're crazy and you want to kill americans, you would have decided that a long time ago.

i think al qaeda and fundamentalist islam is a lot like those crazy-ass militia dudes in montana. In general, I think it takes a certain pre-disposition for you to decide to get that crazy

[fitz]

by the way, you read this bullshit yet?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/12/iraq/main616921.shtml

[Bol]

Of course I'd disagree. I think you have a lot of moderates and relatively few radicals, but everytime some ridonkulous bullshit like this happens, you have a few less moderates and a few more radicals.

[Bol]

OMG (no homo), I can't believe this Lynndie Englan bitch. Talk about a public relations nightmare.

[Milo]

Man, D-COY's point was that while people are crying about Iraqi POW's getting "tortured," we have American soliders GETTING FUCKING BEHEADED.

Abu Ghabria (sp? whatever,) and Berg are completely different. Very, very, very.

Milo

[Fitz]

you and d-coy both seem to be headed towards massive confrontation. when you live together are your blogs going to be produced on the same computer?

if i were you, i'd head down to parkway northeast middle school and apply for some conflict mediation

[Bol]

Milo and D-COY, if we weren't there buttfucking people in the first place, this guy'd still have a head.

[Fitz]

Hey Milo- Nicholas Berg wasn't a soldier, he was a civilian contractor (which in my mind makes it much worse, really.). The killing was reportably done by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who a lot of terrorism scholars consider more dangerous in the long term than bin Laden.

I really hope Americans don't try to use this to rationalize the Abu Gharia abuses. That being said, I hope the world media also picks up on this story to take some of the heat off. I nonetheless think that many people need to be punished for those abuses, especially Lyddie England, whose legs should be cut off.

[noixe]

predisposition is on point, and that element would exist whether or not we were there. we got extremists here, they got them there. Germany still has skinheads. there are ultraviolent militias across the world and we're never going to get rid of that.

what we need to do is create an environment where people will find a reason to not kill americans. if Iraq ever gets stabilized, this element would subside somewhat.

[Bol]

I still don't know that I'm buying this predisposition talk. Would you say that Pat Tillman (basically the American equivalent of a suicide bomber) had a predisposition towards killing Arabs. These are just regular people who see fucked up shit on TV and then make bad decisions.

[Fitz]

You would call Pat Tillman the equivalent of a suicide bomber? I'd hardly say that's fair. The mindset of a soldier is that any given objective is not dependent of his or her death...the mindset of a suicide bomber is that an objective simply cannot be accomplished without his or her death.

In terms of pre-disposition to this kind of activity, think about this.... in general, suicide bombers tend to be relatively well-off, relavitvely well-educated, single young males. They generally tend to fit the same profile. Its also interesting to note that its not an issue of 'not having anything to live for'...most of these people are fairly affluent comparatively to their surroundings. If it was an issue of being 'pushed into' islamic fundamentalism, this simply wouldn't be true. Affluent people wouldn't be 'forced into' islamic fundamentalism.

Think about it like this: You or I would be unlikely to ever become suicide bombers...but can you honestly say that 'suicide bomber' wouldn't have been considered a viable career choice for some of the dudes we went to high school with?

[Milo]

Yo, chill. Bol, it's obvious that dude would have a head if we weren't occupying (or trying to) Iraq.

Fitz, my bust on the misrepresentation. I hadn't looked into it beyond the action of it all (until shortly after I commented.)

Peep my website for my real thoughts on the matter.

Milo

[fitz]

oh, its completely understandable. cool site milo

[fitz]

shit byron, where did you even get a mortal kombat 2 picture>

[DCOY]

Byron, you're missing the point. This whole stupid jail thing wasn't the reason they did this. They are a terrorist organization intent on violence againist anyone who disagrees with them. They killed Berg for the same reason they killed Daniel Pearl. To shock people and to break the will of Americans, and to say that if you don't abide by our rules, we will kill you too. If the whole jail thing didn't happen, they would have done this to someone else for some other reason. That's just how they operate.

[Bol]

D-COY, I'm not saying that this beheading necessarily had to do with the prison thing one way or the other. My point was that if dude wouldn't have been over there in the first place, this wouldn't be an issue. Milo even said this was "obvious," but I figured you would have a hard time grasping this concept, otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up in the first place.

As far as Tillman being the equivalent of a suicide bomber, I think pretty much the only difference is that he went over there thinking maybe he would die where as a suicide bomber plans to die. Otherwise, I'm having a hard time finding any differences.

My uncle David came to town for his book tour. I had to go to one of his readings tonight at a library somewhere down in the ghetto.

[Bol]

I see my shit got over 1300 hits today. That's craaaazy.

Also, here's a link to David's book review in today's post:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/entertainment/reviews.nsf/Book/24970DE7FC7F6C3086256E92004CAD7B?OpenDocument&Headline='Matilda'+tells+a+compelling+story+in+a+strong,+maddening+vo&highlight=2%2Cdavid%2Chaynes

[noixe]

"...to break the will of Americans, and to say that if you don't abide by our rules, we will kill you too.

because nobody in america would ever do anything like that!

Valerie Plame says hi.

[fitz]

But in terms of logic, reasonability, sanity, morality, and sensibility, you would say the Pat Tillman and a suicide bomber are on the same level of thinking and logic?

[Rentz]

Islam is a CULT, not a religion. The fact that has been successful over the years does not mean it is a religion, it uses the trappings of religion to brainwash people, and it works very well at creating little zombies to go out and murder, terrorize, rape, etc. It is also a pan Arab nationalist movement at the same time it is a religion. This is how it has been since day one, also part of the game plan is for Muslims to reproduce at a huge rate, the average , the average Muslim woman has ten children !!! The reaons is , they want to overrun and dominate their neighbors. What we are in now is a war by Global Islam to expand and conquer, they are not content in their own crappy countries (countries Islam made crappy) and they want to seize the adjacent lands. By the way the Indonesians want to seize Australia which they will then repopulate with Muslim Indonesians, exactly the way they seized Borneo, New Guinea, and various other places. This is how Islam works. It is how it is working in France where Marseilles is already a no - go zone for Non Muslims and the Muslims are creeping all over wherever they can - the French live in fear. And it is happening in Scandanavia where big hearted Scandanavians were stupid enough to let in Muslim immigrants, now the Muslims are running around raping, robbing, killing in formerly peaceful places like Malmo. This is how Islam works and how Arabs work unless they are Christian or secular....unfortunately the "moderate" Arabs who are not insane Islamic zombies do not speak up very often, apparently they are in the minority, like about 5 per cent or maybe 1 per cent, the rest of the Islamic Arabs are out to kill, murder, assasinate , rape - either that or they provide support for those who do

[Sarah]

Rentz, two words: FUCK YOU. You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Islam is not a cult; it's a religion. If Islam is a cult, then Judaism and Christianity are cults as well. You're so fucking dumb; you make up things and paste them as facts. The average Muslim woman has 10 kids? Are you fucking stupid? How the fuck would you know? And you say that "seizing lands" is the way Islam works. Well, then America is also that way considering that almost every piece of land aquired by America was STOLEN and repopulated with white people. Did you forget that they killed off Native Americans in mass numbers? Or do you only associate with made up things? And you say they run around raping people. Then those people aren't Muslims, because raping is clearly against the religion. But truthfully, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. You haven't researched the religion at all, but spread all these lies trying to undermine something you can't understand. Stick to something you know how to do, like being a redneck and burning crosses outside people's doors. You're clearly KKK material, and I bet that's a proud fact you associate with. Fuck off and die.

[nigger]

dont be talking out of your ass. if you dont know shit dont be saying shit. you dont know the first thing about islam. islam IS about being peaceful and stuff. and a true muslim would not kill anyone for no reason, or rape someone or any of that stuff since it is against islam. the people that do do that stuff obviously arent real muslims and use it as an excuse. yah in saudi arabia and stuff they might have 10 kids but that has nothing to do with islam, its culture not religion, you gay ass. and dont talk about rape because incase you havent noticed rape is like the number 1 crime in america. plus theres a buncha christians and jews and stuff who do bad stuff but that doesnt make EVERY jew or christian or whatever bad. so you could just go eat shit and die stupid cracka (no offense all you other whit people =)).
nice job sarah